Response to HSarsfield's Questions
HSarsfield said...
Out of curiosity, under what authority are you claiming these things? In other words, what gives YOU the right to say that a church is bad based on YOUR criteria? And if *I* have other criteria, am *I* allowed to judge the validness of a church on those, or do *I* also have to adhere to YOUR criteria?
That is a splendid question. The authority from which I speak is from the position of an adopted son of God.
John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-
Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
That’d be me too, because I have confessed my sins before God.
Now, My criteria is specifically related to a ‘Christian Church’, not a cult which is defined as 3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; Merriam Webster’s Dictionary http://www.m-w.com/
I am not sure where your criterion comes from, but if it doesn’t line up with what the Bible teaches, it is defined as a cult. To me that is a false teaching, and therefore ‘bad’.
HSarsfield said...
“Lastly, if God is indeed "bigger than any organized religion", then one must conclude that rules just don't matter anyway, and your opinions are worthless”.
Slightly hostile… but that’s ok. Let me say this, Religion is man’s effort to put God in a manageable box. In other words, we must do this or that to insure salvation. Friend, Salvation cannot be earned. It is a free gift from God through the sacrifice of his Son. One merely has to accept it through faith.
The ‘Rules’ of which you speak can be defined from this passage:
Matt 22:34-40
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Really, that is the foundation of our faith.
HSarsfield said...
“Mr. Lewis' works come from a heretical viewpoint. He was known for his dislike of the Catholic Faith, and if one is not well steeped in the Faith, then one may be led astray (at least to those of us who believe that there is only ONE true Church).”
This is purely speculation, but I believe Mr. Lewis’ viewpoints of the Roman Catholic Faith were based on the fact that the Roman Catholic Faith believes it is the only ONE true Church, which by definition means all other churches are false.
However, a quick look into the Greek Language that was used to write most of the New Testament would suggest otherwise. Let’s look at the word Church in context.
Matthew 16:18
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
English: Church
Greek to English: Ekklesia
Greek: eÍkklhsiða
Definition:
1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
a. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
b. the assembly of the Israelites
c. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
d. in a Christian sense
1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
Clearly, there is no reference to any particular Religion, whether Protestant or Catholic, However, the word Catholic itself means the Universal Church of God. The minute one says that there is ONE true church, is the minute divisiveness enters into the Body of Christ, and a portion of what God has for each of us is lost, because we can mo longer minister to each other.
Romans 12:4-6
4 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.
What we as Christians must do is keep the Main Thing the Main Thing. I hope that answers your questions.
Out of curiosity, under what authority are you claiming these things? In other words, what gives YOU the right to say that a church is bad based on YOUR criteria? And if *I* have other criteria, am *I* allowed to judge the validness of a church on those, or do *I* also have to adhere to YOUR criteria?
That is a splendid question. The authority from which I speak is from the position of an adopted son of God.
John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-
Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
That’d be me too, because I have confessed my sins before God.
Now, My criteria is specifically related to a ‘Christian Church’, not a cult which is defined as 3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; Merriam Webster’s Dictionary http://www.m-w.com/
I am not sure where your criterion comes from, but if it doesn’t line up with what the Bible teaches, it is defined as a cult. To me that is a false teaching, and therefore ‘bad’.
HSarsfield said...
“Lastly, if God is indeed "bigger than any organized religion", then one must conclude that rules just don't matter anyway, and your opinions are worthless”.
Slightly hostile… but that’s ok. Let me say this, Religion is man’s effort to put God in a manageable box. In other words, we must do this or that to insure salvation. Friend, Salvation cannot be earned. It is a free gift from God through the sacrifice of his Son. One merely has to accept it through faith.
The ‘Rules’ of which you speak can be defined from this passage:
Matt 22:34-40
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Really, that is the foundation of our faith.
HSarsfield said...
“Mr. Lewis' works come from a heretical viewpoint. He was known for his dislike of the Catholic Faith, and if one is not well steeped in the Faith, then one may be led astray (at least to those of us who believe that there is only ONE true Church).”
This is purely speculation, but I believe Mr. Lewis’ viewpoints of the Roman Catholic Faith were based on the fact that the Roman Catholic Faith believes it is the only ONE true Church, which by definition means all other churches are false.
However, a quick look into the Greek Language that was used to write most of the New Testament would suggest otherwise. Let’s look at the word Church in context.
Matthew 16:18
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
English: Church
Greek to English: Ekklesia
Greek: eÍkklhsiða
Definition:
1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
a. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
b. the assembly of the Israelites
c. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
d. in a Christian sense
1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
Clearly, there is no reference to any particular Religion, whether Protestant or Catholic, However, the word Catholic itself means the Universal Church of God. The minute one says that there is ONE true church, is the minute divisiveness enters into the Body of Christ, and a portion of what God has for each of us is lost, because we can mo longer minister to each other.
Romans 12:4-6
4 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.
What we as Christians must do is keep the Main Thing the Main Thing. I hope that answers your questions.
posted by Gary | 10:54 PM
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